Open Relationships: Do Feminine Women Need Multiple Men?

open relationship

Do Feminine Women Need Multiple Men?

On Open Relationships

DISCUSSION


Hi lovely!

This post is for discussion purposes. I just wanted to have a heart-to-heart girl’s discussion about open relationships and whether or not feminine women need more than one man.

So here are my questions:

Do you think that you cannot be truly fulfilled as a woman by just one man?

Do you feel like being in a relationship with one person for life obstructs growth?

Do you think that one woman cannot satisfy one man’s sexual needs?

Do you believe it is IMPOSSIBLE for just one man to fulfill all your needs as a spiritual, sexual and emotional being? 

Read my article about can a man be monogamous

Just for clarification; the definition of open relationships is/are:

1. A relationship where both partners hide nothing from each other, including their past relationships and sexual experiences.

2. A relationship where both partners have agreed that monogamy, sexual fidelity or exclusivity are not expected.

If you know my blog, or have signed up for Attraction Control which was released 3 weeks ago, you would know that I am all about taking responsibility, being accountable for the results you are producing in your relationship, and truly fulfilling your partner’s needs.

I absolutely do not believe that being in a monogamous relationship obstructs growth. It depends whether you are meeting each other’s NEED for growth. I personally have no need to be with other men. My belief is that if a man worships his woman, and a woman worships her man; and they both fulfill each other’s needs and believe that each other are a 10 out of 10; and are in love – then why go with any other men?

To put this entire discussion in to context, I want to refer you to this blog: http://jujumamablog.com/

You may or may not have heard of Juju Mama and this blog. She is a lady from the U.S who has an open relationship with her husband (they each have other girlfriends and boyfriends) – and believe in the idea of compersion. She talks a lot about femininity, which is the thing about her ideas that caught my attention (hell, anything about femininity attracts my attention)! ;)

Personally, I have experienced compersion but do not see the necessity for me to feel (or want to feel/experience this) in the form of my man having sex with other women.

Moreover, her notion of FEMININITY – is that truly feminine women love everybody, and therefore we cannot be TRULY fulfilled spiritually, sexually – by just ONE man. Furthermore, she states that women need more sex than men, and that people who are in marriages or long-term relationships and who think they can be fulfilled are DELUDED.

So – do you think (in your heart of hearts) that a woman cannot only have just ONE man for life?

You know my opinion. If you’ve read a few of my blog posts, you know my solid beliefs. But, we all have to respect each other’s opinions. (read my article about what if he only wants ‘casual’ relationship)

PLEASE NOTE: The theories and concepts behind open relationships (depending on who you speak to) can be quite complex. It is not my intention to over-simplify things. The purpose of the post is to learn something from all of us here. So please don’t think I’m saying open relationships are wrong. I respect everyone’s opinion.

So, please leave your comment below this post and tell us whether you think a feminine woman can be truly fulfilled by just one man for life?

All my best wishes,

Renee the feminine woman

P.S – I’m sorry about the quality of this video. It was night-time, so that’s why it may look a bit fuzzy. :)

80 Comments

  • Natalia

    Reply Reply February 2, 2014

    I think there are no biological grounds to sustain that women should have open relationships. Therefore, it is not naturally feminine to do so in my opinion.

    We, females, are biologically designed to get attached to the male during sex because sex back (in the day) means carring a child for 9 months (now you can use contraceptive but our biology doesn’t not know that) to put it in biological words. And after the 9 months means that man providing food for the child. So during sex we secrete this special hormone that makes us feel attached. Consequently is anti-natural and not a feminine trait to be with multiple man at the same time. We can only get pregnant from ONE man at a time. Why would we want another one? Seriously, there are no funds to say such a thing.

    Now, when it comes to men it’s a whole other story. Biologicaly, they can get thousands of women pregnant at the same time if they feel like it and there is no bonding hormones or anything similar on their side.

  • Holly

    Reply Reply September 11, 2013

    Of course it’s ok :-) and anyone who says different just wants something to moan at!!

    NOT!!! Over my dead body would I ever be happy or consider an open relationship.

    I once fell in real love with a swinger and not that I ever got with that man or anything but the thought of my boyfriend, let alone alone some one I was in real love with sharing their affection/love with other people would be unbearable.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m an open mined person but I recon my jelousy levels could never handle it in a million years.

    I wouldn’t exactly label myself the jelouse type as I’m more likely to display coolness before jelousy and my attitude is live and let live and tell myself that I’m enough, and not to concern losing someone who’s not 100% into me.

    Deep down though I feel very jelouse of one of those types of relationships, one that’s defently not for me.

    In my opinion their would be no way I could open up and why settle!

    I’ll walk away from anyone or anything if the situation calls for it.

    I just want real love in a relationship and for them only to be into me and that’s it! Because that’s what I’m willing to give back, ten fold even.

    Maybe I’m more masculine energy as their is a side of me which people don’t always see and that’s strong minded, independent and strong willed.

    It’s also the reasons people have had feelings for me I would guess as I don’t trip up over men and not forward with my emotions to them so I guess it’s the reason some men have pursued me.

    I won’t settle, especially now I know the feminine women products are for sale and I will do whatever it takes to empower myself to becoming a better women.

    Only helpless women complain, but I have the power!!

    Also,every so often I notice a man that is faithful you his women.

    I was watching uk Big brother the other night and Vinesa Feltzs said to Abs, “you haven’t once checked out Courtney’s bum or boobs whilst you’ve been in the house, what’s been going on their Abs”.

    Abs basically said that he loves his girl to smithernines and that she saved his life and that he’s a one woman man.

    Aha, and I already knew Abs was hot as hell long before that statment! Lol.

    Good for Abs and I know in my bones that faithful men exsist and that’s the reason my mind zoned into what he said.

    Also Brian Tracey says in his book that he wants to thank his wife and how she is his best friend so I know good men egzist so when I hear people say all men cheat and are the same it’s no, just their subconscious mind is filtering for the results that match their mind map.

  • AC

    Reply Reply January 22, 2013

    Hi Renee, I know this is from a while back, but here’s my response to your video: I totally agree with you that one man can serve a woman’s every need. That is the basis behind marriage, I think. I do not believe that open relationships are necessary. However, in the tribal days, a woman might have mated with several men to ensure a good mix of genes, but what probably happened is that while she was pregnant, she was only with one man until they raised the child to self sufficiency, then maybe she looked for another man. But the question is open relationships. What I just explained, I believe, is not an open relationship. It is still a committed one. And although there has been polygamy in past history, I do not believe it is normal.

    Why I don’t believe in open relationships as the most satisfying thing a feminine woman can have: it limits intimacy. I once had an open relationship, but it was with a man who was just “available” who didn’t want to commit, but I thought he had some of the qualities of a man I wanted, but not all. It was his choice to be open. Since he proposed that, I didn’t value him as much or contributed as much to the relationship because I didn’t see a return on my investment. He saw it the opposite way: You give only what you truly WANTED without expecting anything in return, so he saw it as a more true relationship. I don’t know… I ended up dating another man while I was with him and just dated him exclusively, but then ended up going back to him when the relationship ended. Both relationships were not for me. I guess I ended up going into that open relationship because I didn’t know what I wanted, and that was the best I could get at the moment, and I didn’t have much faith in commitment and marriage back then.

  • Joe Flo

    Reply Reply December 23, 2012

    A man is in his sexual prime in his teens and twenties. About the time the man is slowing down the woman enters into her sexual prime, therefore, as a woman ages she needs more than one man.

  • Mags

    Reply Reply December 11, 2012

    Whatis this crap about meeting someones every need?? Since when is that a resp[onsibilities?? Thats what my mans friends are for. I am meet his emotional, affectionate, life planning sexual etc…there is no one person to meet ALL your needs, it takes many we are complex indiviuals, however doesn’t mean you need to sleep with everyone who meets some of your needs. This seems like a no brainer.

  • laluz

    Reply Reply September 24, 2012

    once you are able to separate the ‘I’ from the essence that is you, this concern will no longer be. It is what it is.

  • laluz

    Reply Reply September 24, 2012

    It all depends on what you are ‘seeking’ out of having multiple partners. If you are searching to fulfill desires of the mind and have your needs met through another person then you’ll never reach true joy, peace, love or happiness. I f you just happened to meet an individual and you develop a sexual relationship with that individual and at another point find yourself developing a sexual relationship with someone else, then there is nothing wrong with accepting that fact.

  • Cherry

    Reply Reply July 19, 2012

    One ex bf was into this open relationship thing. I wasn’t at that time and strict as I am I didn’t want to explore it. However afterwards I’ve had multiple lovers at the same time, but in that case I was never deeply in love and there were no commitments involved. It’s a tricky one. I could see myself having it, but I also know how hurtful it can be. I guess it all depends on the partner(s) and the setting.

    In a way the word “open” in such a relationship can be misleading, as it is in fact a very rule based settlement. I guess people who want to be truly free should not be in any kind of relationship since there will always be need for compromising and taking others into account. And I also think that once we start worrying less of having our needs all the time 100% fulfilled, they will actually be more fulfilled.

    Another approach that I’ve had to this topic is a sort of game theory. What if I am with 2++ men and all of them have a bad accident at the same time. Who would I go to first. I know this is highly unlikely but it makes me think that when it’s a matter of life and death, I would like there to be the one that rises above others. Also if it vice versa.

    But yea, there is no right or wrong to this. Everyone does what’s best for them.

  • Elizabeth

    Reply Reply June 5, 2012

    Hello Renee,

    While I enjoy and agree with many of your posts, I have to disagree with you here.

    To start with, I have to say that all people and thus all relationships are different, and wherever there is a rule there is an exception.

    That said, I do think it’s possible for a woman to be fulfilled by just one man for a time, but it’s unlikely that that fulfillment will last for life. I believe in the concept that relationships are not for life, but for growth. I think in many cases where relationships ‘last’ for life, partners are not necessarily fulfilled sexually and emotionally by their partners for life, but rather they have accepted a different kind of relationship (a friendship/comradeship) at some point in the relationship and chosen to continue the relationship for other reasons than being completely fulfilled physically and emotionally (reasons may include finances, security of children, sincere friendship and comfort with partner, cultural pressures or expectations, less of a desire for sex).

    I think it’s unwise for a woman to buy into the concept of ‘happily ever after’, because in my opinion this is an illusion, and many couples are simply unhappy trying to maintain this illusion and ‘stick to their vows’, due to societal pressure to conform to this illusory ideal. Yes, relationships evolve, and yes there are different stages to love, but I think it’s dangerous to encourage the idea that a person is likely be completely fulfilled in a relationship with another for the rest of their lives, or that that is a healthy ideal to aim for.

    I think that people should actively choose to be with their significant other every day. When one or the other no longer wants to choose to be with the other, the relationship ends, and the former lovers part as friends, both understanding that NOTHING lasts forever in life. The nature of life on earth is change, and in my opinion marriage vows are a fear-based reaction to this fact.

    As for open relationships, I think that can be a way to fulfillment for some couples, when it is handled properly. I know couples in polyamorous relationships that find that their partner’s involvement with another person helps to reignite the spark between the original two partners, and both partners find joy in seeing the joy of their partners. The idea is that they alone are responsible for their own fulfillment, and that they should be free to pursue their own fulfillment in any way they choose, as long as it is done with respect and consideration for the feelings of their partner.

    I also know polyamorous couples who use this kind of relationship to avoid problems within the relationship – so rather than growing together they dodge problems and distract themselves with another partner. Like all things in life, there are no hard and fast rules, it’s all about the approach and the maturity of the people involved.

    In summary, I think we are all responsible for our own happiness and fulfillment, and to expect that to come from another person is unreasonable. I also think that some people are willing to settle for less than complete fulfillment to maintain a long-term relationship with a partner, and that is a valid choice, if it is made with eyes open. I think that open relationships can be good for some people and damaging to others. Most importantly, I think everything in life is transitory, and we should not expect any experience of life to last forever – rather enjoy it while it lasts and release it with love when the right time comes.

    • zman

      Reply Reply March 18, 2013

      Great–post. Fulfillment has a lot more to do with the , integrity of the individuals in a relationship ths the form and social bound aries of the relationship itself
      That being said: I also agree that the monogamous.for life (marriage) relationship has many restrictive flaws that are not in sync with the change and evolution humans experience throughout life!

  • mary89

    Reply Reply September 12, 2011

    I guess I’m monogamous, but I think a man isn’t able to satisfy my emotional, sptritual, sexual & intellectual – yes that’s important to me- needs at time.Some men have abilities that others lack. for example someone is gentle & makes me feel protected, but isn’t as hot as I need him to be, the other is attractive but cannot understand my intellectual pursuits, etc. When I’m in love usually I don’t care about other men, however after a while the passion is weakened & I fall for someone else. Maybe someday I get married. If so I try my best to be loyal because marriage means to be commited to eachother. Anyway it’s because of saving your family & in my opinion we aren’t naturally built to stay with a man for our lifetime _ and there is no man who really satisfy all our needs.

  • vp

    Reply Reply March 14, 2011

    i had an ex that was so low in energy i dreaded going that path with her. even today i know i cant do though she mother my child.

    later a a certain woman commented she very probably was
    having it great with someone else but not me but that is
    neither here nor there.

    the point is i did give her permission to go out there and get
    herself ****** and i can assure all i would not have felt any jelousy at
    all. as a matter of fact i probably would have been happy to know that
    her sexual urges were functioning.

    we ended the relationships … but sex was never the reason.
    humans are more complex than the comments i am reading here. at the bottom of everything i do believe in true happiness whether it coming
    through the monogamous or open channels

    vp

  • anne watts

    Reply Reply January 19, 2011

    My husband and I are looking for a man interested in a mfm relationship with us. We’ve sucessfully enjoyed an open relationship before and it was interrupted by his illness but now we want to resume it and maybe try two men. My sex drive is intense and always has been.

  • Denise

    Reply Reply October 27, 2010

    Dear darling:

    I have been reading your blog for a couple of days now. I just saw your video and
    was pleasantly surprised to see you are so young! I expected you, thru your very
    wise and sound advice, to be much older. So congratulations! I am a 52 years old
    woman, and was taught from early childhood how to use my feminine power. I am
    so glad young women out there are interested, and mainly discovering what has “naturally”
    been known for centuries: We are the strong sex, as we can make men (and women!) do whatever we
    want!…And it starts with your Dad and brothers, to your spouse and sons, and every man
    that crosses your path!…among other things, that you discuss beautifully by the way, there
    is a saying that to me summarizes what being feminine is:” you get more thru honey than thru vinegar”. I am translating
    from Spanish (my mother tongue) and I am sure there must be a saying in English to this effect.
    Thru your natural sweetness and delicacy, from looks to actions… you can easily become pleasing and
    addictive, to everyone!…friends, children, spouse and family. The best compliment I get this days is:”How
    pleasant it is to be around you”…and my husband literally “shines” with pride and silently agrees!

    Regarding your discussion on “open relationships”…what a waist of time and effort! Perhaps
    is a physical thing,but could never be a fulfilling way of life. I believe you would loose your
    uniqueness and all the wonderful qualities and virtues of a woman, one very important:
    “being faithful and loyall”….and if you succeed in making your man believe you are unique, special,
    and the ultimate treasure…why would he want to share you??? Why would you want to
    dispense “your favors” to anyone????? A good intimate relationship takes time and effort
    to build and keep, it does not happen overnight; so direct your efforts towards someone that is worthy
    of them…not just any “horny fellow”!

    Sweetie I will eagerly continue to read all of your advice…being a true woman is never
    completely achieved, and a refresher course is much appreciated!

    Thank you for being wonderful. Warm regards from sunny Mexico!

    Denise

    • Abhishek

      Reply Reply July 6, 2011

      Dear Denise,

      I am a 22 years old Indian man. I have apirations to settle in United States but fear of loosing “Indianism” by my would be offsprings. As you may that India is a country predominantly following Vedic culture (Hinduism), our girls used to be “Sita” (One of leading character in Ramayan, the epic) where man is considered God for her spouse and so the woman Goddess for her spouse. But when i read, see and gather this type of blog, stuff about west, open relationship blah blah, i go through a mixed feeling of astonishment and sadness. How could a woman even think about sleeping with other man or a man with another woman…?? Its beastily..!!!!

      Thanks for the lovely reply you gave to the writer.. :)

      • Michele

        Reply Reply December 28, 2012

        I follow a swami, I live in the United States and am a full grown adult female who believes that I can have one man to satisfy me enough because getting all my needs met seems so egotistical and unrealistic. I was with one person for 17 years and secretly we broke up and I stayed living with him because I enjoyed a career we shared in a fully celibate state for 7 years and I had lots of men falling all over me. I am attractive and I like being a high value woman with not a lot of traffic.

        You can still find those who are upholding your beliefs in the states.

        I do know that there are many, many ashrams started by Swamiji Paramahamsa Nithyananda in the United States – I know what he went through – I don’t think it outshines the Vedas though.

        Don’t give up hope on the states if you are coming here – my parents raised me with my values.
        I am not from India – I was born in the states surrounded by debauchery….and I mean debauchery and it seemed that my friends loved the thrill and chaos, and where not spiritual at all….however, I only seek approval from myself so see – I have faith that you will add your ways to the states, not have your ways taken away from you.

  • jujumama

    Reply Reply October 4, 2010

    By the way… if you want the spiritual perspective upon which my husband and I base our delightfully delicious open marriage visit anytime… http://jujumamablog.com/2010/08/07/my-love-affair-with-renee-part-2/ and the other http://jujumamablog.com/2010/08/06/carl-stevens-tames-blogger-renee/ in these posts we talk about the global significance of our open philosophy. xo

    PS – I love Renee for reflecting us all beautifully. When we really come to understand our oneness we realize in every conversation we are merely talking to parts of ourselves. xoxo

  • jujumama

    Reply Reply October 4, 2010

    Well this has been fun! A discussion full of light! I’m just having a moment to read the thread. Very insightful world of humans we live in.

    My only real comment (because everything else has been said) is that only 4% of the animal kingdom is monogamous of those are bats and geese and some others. What monogamy entails is a desire to make with one other for life. If that mate dies, the sex life of the other is over. Which human being, then, is truly monogamous based on the scientific (not dogmatic, opps I mean religious/cultural) rendition of the word?

    Hmmmm… none.

    Love and Light to all! I am continuing my mission to unify the human family! We are truly one being. One love! xo

  • Madeline

    Reply Reply September 15, 2010

    Howdy all,

    First off, while I can’t say that I’ve experienced a true open relationship, I know others that have and I must say that I believe the desire stems from one that we all lean toward–oneness. If you are spiritual at all, the sense that their is a rift that separates us from uniting as one may hold weight with you. I think that people trying to find fulfillment think that by having open relationships they are able to love all equally. But I suspect, firstly, that most people that lean towards the open relationship idea come from dysfunctional families, which can totally skew your view of what a healthy relationship is supposed to be like.

    Also, I have noticed that the bliss people in open relationships seem to experience seems kind of melancholy. They may feel blissful and elated but I am reminded of people doped up on mood inhibiting drugs, feeling very good but perhaps not deeply, not as reflectively? I see people that trying to seem carefree, they want to feel part of something..

    I think it is a far more beautiful thing to have the ability to abstain from sex and cultivate deep friendships with people rather than just have sex with them all. Sex, although wonderful, is a baser function. It is so much more powerful and potentially traumatizing to the soul than we think, we should not just be having sex with all different people. It really should be reserved for making babies and lovemaking with one person. There are some things that just need to be black and white. Sex is one of them. Ideally, I think that we should care enough to cherish our partners and not hurt one another, the result being that each one of us ends up being loyal to our partner because we are more concerned about their happiness and getting to know them on a soul level so that we do not try to selfishly seek fulfillment through other relationships. You could argue, “But aren’t I being selfish by not sharing my love with others? Doesn’t more than one person deserve my love?” Of course, but in an ideal world where everything is shared and friendship abounds, shouldn’t their be that special union designated for sharing with one special person? Can’t your friendship love be genuine enough to share rather than your romantic, sexual love? To have sex with multiple partners is a very deeply moving, albiet draining experience. You will drain yourself dry, so you have to keep your emotions at bay. If these people tried to really get to know one another on a soul/romantic level, they would lose their minds. One person is enough for this lifetime, I think.

    • Renee

      Reply Reply September 15, 2010

      Hm, Madeline, I found your comment very interesting and thoughtful. Thanks for sharing. :) -XxX-

  • Lydia

    Reply Reply September 1, 2010

    I definitely believe that one man and one woman, each giving 100% is the ideal. I used to think that it wasn’t possible to be in love with 2 men at the same time, but now I think it might be, but I don’t think it is a good thing—for me, it would seem to be a curse. I think it takes a lifetime to discover all the wonderful things one great man has to offer because he will always be growing and changing, as should every great woman.

  • Connie

    Reply Reply August 30, 2010

    I believe my marriage is a covenant relationship with my husband. It is a Sacrament. So no open relationships for either of us. However, I do have a very close male friend. I love him deeply as a friend as does my husband. I think part of why he is attracted to our family is because we are so traditional and I am a nurturer. I grew up with 4 brothers and no sisters. I am very comfortable around men and my husband knows he has my heart and soul so he is never concerned.
    I do not flirt with other men. That part of me is exclusively for my man.
    All this said, yes I believe feminine women need and attract men. We need friendships because they enhance our femininity and we attract men because we are a rare occurance these days.

  • Tina Carr

    Reply Reply August 21, 2010

    I could never share my Man and have no desire for any other Man or relationships of an intimate nature other than the one I have.I give myself completely and tend to my Mans needs as he does to mine.It would be exhausting to carry on multiple relationships…don’t see the point.If it aint broke ..why fix it ? Why jeopardize that when i have, want and desire. The grass is not greener…
    I imagine those not satisfied with their present situation should explore what’s out there…but many women are not ready to submit and Men not willing to commit to anyone, so they will always be caught in the dating cycle, perhaps never to find real happiness because of a skewed view of what a relationship should look like.
    Sticking with what I have but understand the need for others to continue to search.

  • Melinda

    Reply Reply August 12, 2010

    Renee, agreed! When commitment is a free choice, and one that is a mutual desire of both partners, its neither exploitive nor restictive. The same is true of open, polyamorous relationships. Relationships are exploitive when one person is getting their needs met at the expense of the other’s.

    Astarte, I’d like to clarify that I am not against polyamory. I just prefer monogomy for myself. The suggestion that its unnatural by

  • sharon

    Reply Reply August 11, 2010

    For me I can only entertain a monogamous, and sexually exclusive relationship with my special man

  • Renee

    Reply Reply August 11, 2010

    Monogamy is not a form of restriction for some.

  • Crystal

    Reply Reply August 11, 2010

    Well put Astarte.

  • Astarte

    Reply Reply August 11, 2010

    I appreciate Oli for what you’ve written and Amitabh! Sachmet I am not sure how you can be wiccan and not know something of the legacy of women on this planet. Although much has been obscured concerning our origins and contributions. @Melinda, I don’t think monogamy is unnatural but as you’ve sited MOST in the animal kingdom don’t function from this place, I believe the same with humans, though we can. I really believe that whatever one chooses to experience is their right to do so. I entered this conversation because of the critic and “sarcasm” concerning the idea of open relationships. These comments seemed to approach the topic from a sexual stance mainly (ahg! sex with more than one person, nasty!) and from a very emotionally immature place. The expressions were from a very “MINE” sort of mentality. Logically there will not be a man to every woman. And as Oli sited our nature is one of freedom and not restriction. Freedom, cannot be had in any relationship that is about ownership as the word is defined no matter the type of relationship.

  • Renee

    Reply Reply August 11, 2010

    Thanks Melinda for the reference to that article.

    @ Oli: I agree with you about Queen Elizabeth. What a gracious lady!

    @ Sachmet: Hi!! I do believe you have put everything very succinctly – a few things I neglected to say myself in response to Astarte. Thanks.

    -XxX-

  • Melinda

    Reply Reply August 11, 2010

    @ Amitabh:

    There IS such a thing as monogomy in the animal kingdom. Its called pair-bonding. While the majority of animal species do not have the brain structure for it, many do; humans being one of them. Here is a lovely article which goes into more detail about how the sexual brain works:
    http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v7/n10/full/nn1004-1029.html

    I respect the fact that your find monogomy boring, but your personal preferences and an anecdote about chickens does not prove its unnaturalness.

  • Amitabh Pandey

    Reply Reply August 10, 2010

    One day, the American President Calvin Coolidge & his wife were visiting a Government farm & were taken on separate tours. Mrs. Coolidge asked at the chicken pens, whether the rooster copulated more than once a day. Dozens of times, said the guide. Please tell that to the President, she requested. When the President was shown the pens & told about the rooster, he asked, same hen every time? Oh No! Mr.President, a different one each time. The President said, Tell that to Mrs. Coolidge.
    There is no such thing as fidelity in animal kingdom & although the human mating system is not like any other animals, it cannot escape the laws governing mating systems, which have been documented in hundreds of species. Human sexuality cannot be independent of biology, it cannot be completely socially constructed & have none of the chicken instinct in it! So deep down we would rather behave like the chickens, but in order to be moral, faithful, monogamous & loving forever, the human race has imposed value system on itself. And so obviously, Indians, very much a part of human race, though sometimes claiming to be above it, are not actually particular about fidelity, but pretend to be.
    It’s not just variety being the spice of life or the appearance of the wife that triggers the decline; it’s some time more deep-rooted. It is the idea of being with only one person forever that is abysmally boring. And because nature cannot tolerate vaccum, change flowers, & infidelity blossoms

  • Amitabh Pandey

    Reply Reply August 10, 2010

    IDEALS OF FREEDOM FIDELITY & LOVE
    None of us live truly human lives without serious commitments. Yet, we find some commitments burdensome & alienating no matter how light they may be, & others freeing & liberating no matter how difficult they may become. Indeed, some commitments make us more human, & others, less so.
    How does one make out the difference? A genuine human commitment has 3 characteristics, & all 3 are essential & integrating to any human being. And of one or other is lacking, the whole character of commitment is compromised.
    First, to be human, a commitment must be free. Freedom is a constituent characteristic of human behaviors, the defining element of any moral action, the very basis of our human dignity & identity. Freedom can never be surrendered unless one freely chooses to limit one’s freedom of choice. This is what makes freedom committed, but it doesn’t make it less free. Indeed, the paradox of freedom is that in choosing, we become more free. The second characteristics of a human commitment are fidelity. For a choice that is reversed a promise that is broken, is a betrayal not only of the person in whose favor the choice is made, but also of the person who did he choosing in the first place.
    Lack of fidelity degrades one’s freedom. Fidelity is not just a matter of integrity, whether physical, psychological or otherwise, Fidelity implies that any new commitment must be lined out in the context of the other commitments we already have. Also, fidelity demands a loyalty, a devotion to the good of other over one’s own. There may indeed be a conflict of choice in exercising such fidelity, as in a family where many may demand our devotion & attention 7 we have to be wise & discerning, if we are to cope with them all. Yet here the conflict is one of priorities. Fidelity is precisely choosing again one’s commitment to the other over one’s own self-interest.
    Finally, a human commitment, besides freedom & fidelity, must be love; Love is not just the motivation of such a commitment. If there is something that motivates love, then, it would seem to make love an instrument, a means for something else & not unconditional love. Real love is its own reason, for it is an end in itself. Hence a truly human commitment begins with, & is fulfilled in, love.
    A commitment inspired by love leads us deeper into a loving relationship. This is a paradox of human commitment: in giving we receive, in loving we find love, in choosing we find greeted freedom, in being faithful we find our liberation & yet when all three of these characteristics come together & are integrated & genuinely expressed in a human commitment, only then will our commitment be truly humanizing. For freedom alone, without fidelity & love, is nothing but license.
    Fidelity in a human relationship i.e. neither free nor loving is oppressive & even exploitative. And love that is neither free nor faithful cannot be true love. It can only be a compulsive self. Love, it can never be a genuinely unselfish love.
    A commitment to fidelity, freedom & love is a heroic ideal, one almost beyond our own strength. But such a heroic commitment does not always have to be lonely one. That could well be a recipe for failure & frustration. When our commitments are made in a community of friends, who in turn are committed to support & sustain it, we are so much better about to fulfill to promises we make. Life is a continuing renewal that brings new commitments & new promises. For we ourselves are promises, not to be broken, waiting to be fulfilled. And so may the promises we make fulfill the promises that we are.
    “JUST PLAY. HAVE FUN. ENJOY THE SAME”

  • oli

    Reply Reply August 10, 2010

    In this present day matriarchy still exists in several places in this world (for example in Africa). So does polygamy.

    I personally have friends from families, communities, towns in matriarchal societies. People get married under traditional marriages, an institution that has existed for thousands of years. In some societies multiple partners are allowed, in fact the norm, to this day. It is the advent of Christianity on the African continent that brought with it a heavy emphasis on monogamy and patriarchy(in some cases only). Often you see differing beliefs and institutions (monogamous as in Christian influence and polygamous traditional marriages) co-existing side by side and sometimes making for uncomfortable bed fellows. Are the women feminine? They are.Are they forced into these marriages? Often not. Sometimes. Yet they sometimes have to share their men with other wives. Do they hate it? The general consensus is they do at the present time. Tales of rivalry, jealousy and hatred are quite common. However the married in monogamous relationships face the same emotions of jealousy and hatred when they discover their husband’s mistress (if you are lucky) or mistresses.

    I don’t admire Jacob Zuma, President of South Africa for having……….amount of wives (honestly lost count of them), but I do admire Queen Elizabeth for inviting him and wives to Buckinghan Palace, being gracious despite the obvious cultural difference and while the media and press were busy discussing the ‘embarassing Zuma’s marriage’, the Queen gracefully accepted the world in its diversity and complexity and acted like a lady.

  • Sachmet

    Reply Reply August 9, 2010

    Ah, I cannot help myself but post another comment on this topic although I feel we strayed a bit from the original topic.

    First of all, I want to stress that I do not condemn open relationships in any way. As long as all the people involved know that they are living in an open relationship and do not feel pressured into it, this is totally okay. If one feels that this is the kind of relationship s/he wants at that time it’s perfectly okay and I guess there will be a reason for it and life wants you to learn something from it. People living in open relationships are very obviously not ready for a monogamous one. Renee and most ladies on this blog (myself included) are just as obviously not ready for an open relationship. Both is perfectly okay. (Things become a lot more complicated when children are involved, of course, but this would be getting to far here.)

    HOWEVER, I absolutely reject the suggestion that open relationships are kind of a logical evolutionary step from monogamous ones or that I was conditioned to favour monogamy by a patriarchal society. And I absolutely abhor being told that I am deluded or conditioned to believe something. I do not like it when people drop these “atomic bomb argument” on my head. Such arguments show that the person using them is not really open to talk and just wants to be right because they basically end all discussions. There is just no real counterargument to sentences like “You’re deluded!”, “God told me!”, “You were conditioned to think that way!” and theír other, very ugly brothers and sisters.

    Astarte, concluding from what you write, I guess that you come from a pagan (maybe Wiccan?) background. That is fine, I am a Wiccan myself (however, I do not believe that matriarchy as you describe it ever existed. So far, there is no scientific evidence for matriarchy and chances that there ever will be are basically inexistent.)
    But whether you are a pagan or not, you’re point of view is rather unorthodox and I guess that you want to see some tolerance from society for your stance. And rightly so! I feel, however, that you have forgotten that one only can expect things from others that one is able to practice oneself. Your posts do not speak of tolerance or respect for women who prefer monogamy. I feel that you rather belittle them and do not take them seriously (see the conditioning argument). You are free and welcome to believe whatever you want but this post was meant to be a discussion and in discussions there is no place for an “I have seen the light”-attitude that makes you look down on all the poor creatures that are still living rather miserably in darkness. And … as long as you think that a woman’s preference for monogamy and her wanting to marry etc. comes from conditioning and is not what she actually wants, you are by no means better than a man who thinks that his wife is his property.

  • Astarte

    Reply Reply August 8, 2010

    I am speaking about humankind as a whole and the perpetuation of humankind when looking at relationships and the many reasons why other forms of partnerships could be necessary and more feasible. Also, our very stagnated and limited way of thinking and functioning in relationships. This is also why our youth are dysfunctional.

    I watched recently a video on polyandry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7HKmu3eMEk that tells of a very different way of living. Check this one out as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4yjrDSvze0&NR=1&feature=fvwp. These are I believe pale comparisons to how the ancient polyandry women lived but it preceded monogamy.

    We argue monogamy as if it were the only kind of relationship to ever exist. The rate of cheating and divorce has never been higher. Monogamy was established under religious rule and it was not in favor of women. We live in a box when it comes to this topic. The ancient women held ALL the property once, created agriculture, astronomy, astrology, mathematics and ran the political and spiritual centers and traded it in for a diamond ring, a house and a wedding, MAYBE! That’s what we look forward to now. Wealth and power was passed through the matriarchal line and not this idea of the father’s last name being more important. Not to mention that also men began to take control by force and began the wholesale murdering and enslavement of women that happened in almost every corner of the globe. Under religious rule! What a paradigm shift!

    No man can MAKE you feel whole and my feeling of being a Goddess, beautiful and powerful is not dependent upon another person’s view of me. Responsibility for each other is a given but no one can MAKE you happy. I live with a God. He is beautiful, kind, honest, loving, worships ALL women as being divine and the mothers and creators of this planet. But I will never attempt to own him through some need to feel secure and pretty! Nor would he attempt to own me. Our lives look very monogamous but there is true openness and honesty. There are no illusions and that is freedom. We bind ourselves within the relationships and negotiate terms that are about owing another person’s sex. We say “relationship is about more than sex” but the moment your partner makes a decision to share HIS/HER sex with someone else the relationship is over. At the core that is what today’s monogamy is about. Who owns who’s sex. And MOST men don’t feel secure enough to speak openly about their feelings or attractions to another woman’s energy. Also, MOST men could not handle a woman being free and autonomous because “IT” belongs to them. Our bodies are objectified within these contracts that we call love and commitment.

    From your perspective if this person does not conform to what you want or you can’t control their actions than you can’t be happy.

    Life isn’t fair? I said that women out number men and all you can say is “OH WELL”. Every man for himself? It is mathematics, but then our religious morals will condemn women that take female mates. Everyone wants to connect and share love. And the bottom line is that MOST people have several relationships in their life time anyway whether you call them monogamous or open. This in and of itself says something. MOST people don’t stay together for a lifetime and no, one person cannot be your EVERYTHING. What you are insisting upon is a false sense of security, when security comes from within not because you feel a marital contract makes it so. Women have been socialized to believe that they should follow the Cinderella story. To look for this knight in shining armor, a diamond ring, the wedding, the car, etc. The ritual of marriage was originally created as a declaration of women as the property of the man, hence you being branded with his last name.

    We need to think and reason for ourselves. So some guy uses the word OWN and we take it and run with it. OWN, SUBMIT, PROPERTY are all words that have negative vibrational meanings. I don’t agree with his expression. I do feel that we should worship and venerate our mates however many you have. We limit love through these monogamous constructs. The ancient Shiva & Shakti, Isis & Osiris, Maat & Tehuti are examples of what divine love and relationship should look like. We would do well to study and emulate these archetypal examples of how to identify with each other as masculine and feminine principals. The Goddesses in these stories were recognized by their male consorts as being all powerful and AUTONOMOUS! And they were not their only lovers.

    We need to take more responsibility for ourselves. In past centuries the marital status of a women determined whether she would be feed and housed or left in the street to starve.

    • Renee

      Reply Reply August 8, 2010

      Did I say “oh well”? Do you really think I said that? If that was my attitude, I couldn’t run this blog.

      I would say more, some of your arguments are simply straw men.

      As I said – whatever relationship style gives anyone true fulfillment.

      P.S – the number of men outnumber the number of women in some countries. And, Astarte – d you know that the number of men outnumbers the number of women AT BIRTH? More boys born than girls.

  • Astarte

    Reply Reply August 6, 2010

    No one person can be your everything! Its like saying you need only one friend in life. Making one person solely responsible for you happiness is not balanced or right! If you find someone that you end up with for life without regret or living a lie great, but this is not the only way to live and relate. This human existence is about experiences that lead the soul to lessons and you can’t get all of life’s lessons through one relationship, that’s why most of us have had more than one in our life time. Of course while looking for that one true love. This is a fairytale! I am sorry Cinderella. If you need someone else to make you feel special, beautiful, important, smart, sexy, adored, loved, etc. you are in trouble. A MAN WILL ONLY LOVE AND ADORE YOU AS MUCH AS YOU LOVE AND ADORE YOURSELF!

    Also, you women are only thinking about yourselves and not the woman that might go without a partner or even children and certainly not about the oneness of humanity. Have you all forgotten the women on this planet totally outnumber men? There is no one man for every women and this is by natural design not accident. We keep trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. We are too fearful, needy, desperate, emotionally dependent, controlling, low on esteem and power. This is not simply about whose having sex with who, not wanting to share or STD’s it is about love, community and the perpetuation of our species. Under matriarchal rule, which none of you seem to know much about, women chose multiple lovers and the men did as well and were happy in this. Monogamy as a RULE is a construct that came much later and it involved men asserting power and control over what became THEIR property. That means you and your children! You’ve all heard of chattel haven’t you? There was not this demand to identify father because all the men of the community served as father. The women ran polygamy unlike today and it was about the children and the community as a whole! There was freedom in love and sex. Sex was a source of healing and power and spiritual enlightenment. Sex was and still is the road to awe but we’ve forgotten this. We live in an over sexualized world filled with sexually repressed people that fail to empower and sexually educate their children. Under matriarchy women were free and ruled in love and power both in the religious and political arenas and a marital contract was not built upon the idea that any one person owns the sexual rights of another. Women taught the sexual secrets to the men! We have fallen so far from the legacies of the ancient goddesses. Desperation and neediness only leads to more of the same and some of the posts that I’ve read here are this and quite emotionally immature I must say. I mean really – “how can he make me feel loved if he is with someone else”! – LOVE YOUR SELF!

    • Renee

      Reply Reply August 6, 2010

      For women who might go without a partner in life, that is life. Life is NOT fair. It’s totally UNfair. And I love that life is unfair. If I wasn’t put in an unfair situation as I have been in my past, I wouldn’t have been encouraged to grow and become MORE.

      Not that I prefer some women to be lonely, as this breaks my heart to hear – but I prefer that they were empowered to raise their standards and not to settle.

      How is it fair that one child is beaten to death by their mother or father and another is given all the love they could ever ask for? It’s NOT!

      How is it fair that a tiny, tiny proportion of women in this world get to be placed on a pedestal because of their perceived perfect looks (models and what not) – when other women don’t. Not that all women want this, however.

      The way to overcome this unfairness is to have HIGH STANDARDS. And to constantly better yourself.

      We DON’T all have equal opportunity.

      Moreover, it’s not selfish to want a woman or man to yourself if you take full responsibility for their needs. It’s selfish to have a ‘give and take’ outlook on relationships.

      The difference between what i recommend and what you recommend is that in your ideal, people wouldn’t take responsibility for their partner’s needs.

      In my relationship model, they do. And that’s why wanting one partner to yourself is not selfish.

      Astarte, this is not a column for sarcasm. So I ask you kindly to refrain from it. Who said you cannot love yourself if you want more from others? We never truly do anything alone. Whether you currently feel smart, sexy or beautiful has (to varying extents for different people) something to do with other people validating that belief for you throughout your life through implication, words, actions or anything else. It varies though, from person to person.

      This is not to say that you RELY on it. Not at all.

  • Poppy War

    Reply Reply August 6, 2010

    Relationships do not obstruct your growth if you are with the right person. From experience I know open relationships only bring distrust and heartache.

  • sarah

    Reply Reply July 22, 2010

    I love this blog.

    But…..GROSS! The idea of being with multiple men is a grotesque idea. A true alpha male will NOT want a woman who has any type of sexual relationship with any other man but himself. I cannot speak for a man’s perspective, but as a woman….I would feel vulgar and low class if I “slept around”…which is what you call it when a woman sleeps with multiple men. I can’t help it. I value the ideals of virtue, loyalty, purity, and femininity. Open relationships are vulgar and disgusting…in my point of view.

    That’s my humble opinion. :)

    love,
    Sarah

    ps. Did I mention that I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your blog!

  • Tiara

    Reply Reply July 20, 2010

    I think that is what it all boils down too
    alot of us live our lives in a state of fear and conduct everything we do from that place including whatever type of relationships we choose to engage in

    the key is to come from your heart and make choices out of love, love is infinite and its not wrong to choose to love more than one or to love just one, its your choice, your expression, your experience and no one way is the “right” way if you come from love

    you can have deep meaningful experiences with more than one person just as you can have it with one, one doesn’t trump the other when love plays a part in the experience, and when people feel love, all the things they thought about love vanish when you truly feel it and stop trying to construct it a specific way and then limit and define it to those constructs and “actions”

    I think the best monogomous relationships are those where there is openess and freedom and even though the two people know they are free to explore and experience with who they want, they prefer to be there with each other…no need to put consequences or limitations and restrictions on the people..i know a few people who went the route of open relationships and exploring other people just to come to the conclusion that they would prefer to be with each other

    you can have scary, fear based, anxiety filled, emotionally shut down, walled up, non intimate, closed off, always pushing away, non committed (just acting “committed”) monogomous relationship as you can having multiple partners in that same fear based state of mind

  • Renee

    Reply Reply July 20, 2010

    Hey Jenny :)

    Indeed. Many people choose many things out of fear. And it’s true that many do choose exclusivity out of fear. Thanks to you and Christian for sharing that.

    And – the point is NOT to choose exclusivity out of fear.

    The point I’m putting forth is for people to know that they have the personal power to take responsibility for their partner’s needs if monogamy is their path of choice. And, to live blissfully and happily that way.

    Ultimately, it’s just a choice. A personal choice. And a final note on growth – I guess even though I believe I will have more growth in exclusive relationship, the question really comes down to:

    What is going to give you ultimate fulfillment??

  • Jenny

    Reply Reply July 20, 2010

    HI REnee!
    Saw this comment on face book and I really like it :-) AND it went well with this discussion!! From a man named Christian: “..I agree that many choose ‘exclusivity’ out of fear, and probably then this would not be real exclusivity. It takes equally as much fearlessness to enter into an exclusive relationship where you are totally committed to surrender any resistance that you may have to fully connecting with your partner, as it does to resolve the unknown of an ‘open’ relationship. Either way, if you are authentic, you will never know for sure what will come next. ♥”

  • WomanoftheWorld

    Reply Reply July 19, 2010

    In many parts of the world, they don’t have monogamy, heck… they don’t even have FOOD! It takes people who have food, shelter, education and jobs to worry about romance and monogamy. Social arrangements other than monogamy are threatening to most Western women, because they are taught from a young age that their sense of significance in life comes from a relationship. If you had grown up in Africa and never seen a Disney movie, your ideas about love, marriage and family might be different. If you must be monogamous to be feminine, there could be entire continents of un-feminine women.

    When you think inside of your culture, you are bound to it, unable to escape or to imagine there is something to escape FROM. It’s like being in a tiny room, not knowing that a wall is the only thing that separates you from the outside. For every belief that is held, something greater is withheld from you.

    I don’t think the issue is one of whether women “need” more than one man. I think the issue is that nothing is outside the realm of possibility. It’s possible to love more than one person truly, completely. And this can happen instantaneously. You don’t have to know them for years. The intangible substance that makes you “you” can be known to another, just by looking into their eyes. The maximum amount of personal growth occurs in whatever lifestyle a person is most comfortable with being themselves. You can’t put it on a leash. It can’t be confined by human parameters.

    With monogamy vs. open relationships, both sides believe that their way is normal, natural, better, more enriching, etc. I don’t think you can come to a conclusion by listening to different opinions. People generally see the things that validate the opinions they already had. Some people are happy and fulfilled in monogamous relationships, and some aren’t.

  • Rachel

    Reply Reply July 19, 2010

    Hi renee
    I agree with you!!!!!
    Human nature IS for monogamy!
    HUman body is for monogamy!
    More relationships means less peace and happiness in life!
    But I guess some people need this state of mind of less peace and less happiness….
    That’s why they prefer “open relationships”
    If one find the right partner why should they need anyone else?
    Rachel

    • Myra

      Reply Reply June 5, 2012

      The choice one could make is to stay single and have all the open relationships you want. Don’t get married. Marriage is for two people being exclusive on purpose. If one decides later that it is really is not for them, they should respect their partner and tell them and part ways. This is 100 percent more respectful than cheating. It boils down to both people having the same beliefs (equally yoked), without this, your relationship has a stronger chance of failing. I think the hard part is you may have love in all aspects for the person, but then if you do not have sexual attraction or energy together, or one person decides they are bored, the sexual part may be stronger to part with the person at some point, although they love the person in all other aspects. Most of the time, if both partners do not come totally clean and really communicate any issues they may have and evolve and change and be open in their marriage, they just want to end it. Reality is that it will just likely happen again. Chances are they will never be totally happy. Sometimes people just think it is too much work or have walls up and just move on to the next person for excitement, but eventually it will just become a cycle. To really be totally fufilled, it is a mental and physical walk in the relationship. Admiration of each other, respect, patience, support, kindness, attraction (look at your partner like you crave and want them with your eyes and body language). The truth is life is so challenging, why give up if the relationship is worth salvaging. One person may have a struggle, but then you might have a struggle later. Be there for each other, that is what love is all about.

  • Renee

    Reply Reply July 16, 2010

    P.S Kenya:
    To quote Anthony Robbins: If you meet all your partner’s needs, it’s IMPOSSIBLE for them to leave you. You might also be interested to know that he says that in his 30+ years of working with humans – he has NEVER known a human being to leave a relationship where all their needs are met.

    The notion that one person isn’t enough to meet all your needs is (to me) a limiting belief. I think open relationships LIMIT growth more than an exclusive one. Because to meet one person’s needs takes enormous courage rather than going to different partners.

    If you’re willing to put your heart and soul in to it – an exclusive relationship is the most special thing in the world.

  • Renee

    Reply Reply July 16, 2010

    @ Kenya: hey :) Thank You for your response. And I’m looking forward to deeper exploration. After you respond via video, my love and I will also respond via video.

    @ Y: I so agree that there is something incrredibly magical about being in an exclusive relationship. I still love and appreciate other people as well.

    @ Jenny: yes, I have explored Kenya’s ideas thoroughly. But, it’s way too much to delve in to on my blog, since most of my readers wouldn’t really be familiar with Kenya’s work – so I have to start where I have.

    And, sure, being in an open relationship means that you are honest about it if you have feelings of attraction for others…..BUT this is assuming these feelings even exist in the first place.

    This is something my man and I do not relate to.

    Further, the point about loving your SO so much that you’re willing to let them do what they want (be with another) – this all depends how you define love.

    And, just to repeat myself; this is all assuming your partner has feelings of attraction for others in the first place. I believe one can have polarity – but not necessarily sexual attraction with others.

    Also, Jenny, I received an email from you a few weeks ago that was blank. It said ‘hi’ in the subject line and that was it. Maybe you want to send it again via my contact page?

    @ Stefanie: thanks for your input. Much love to you. :)

    -XxX-

  • Kenya K Stevens

    Reply Reply July 16, 2010

    My topic is a good one yes? giggle

    Here is a video I did about Mastering Monogamy…

    We never suggest that a people conditioned to be monogamous should all of a sudden switch to open relating. Instead, Master Monogamy!

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6165762

    JujuMama xoxo

  • stefanie

    Reply Reply July 16, 2010

    “Nature and wisdom are never at strife”

    And nature states that various forms of relationship are possible and have different outcomes for the offspring. Nature also states -sorry for getting graphic here- that male sperm is good for the female vagina, but not if it’s different sperm all the time – it has to be the same. If that’s the case, it increases her positive moods etc.
    I personally feel most vulnerable after sex. I couldn’t have sex with just anyone – and I couldn’t reach the same level of closeness with several partners. There’s just not enough time!
    I know a few men who have sex on a daily basis, with various women (ie. the “players”) and they all tell me (including one of my brothers, so not just as a pick-up line!) that they wish it weren’t so. They think it’s empty and they wish they could have a meaningful relationship. I’m sure there are men, who consider being a successful player the goal of life, but they are, in my eyes, immature. Because the social/emotional growth you can get through a relationship is just so much more fulfilling – plus you get to have sex in a monogamous relationship, too!
    I think one man can fulfill all the needs I have for manly input and I think I fulfill all his needs for female input.

    My sister has an open relationship, which is the reason everyone who cares about her keeps trying to set her up with other men. She stated that she loved the thrill of being able to seduce a guy – even though everyone knows that men are so easily seduced for just sex. I think if her love made her feel beautiful, and powerful, she wouldn’t seek it elsewhere. Because how can one man, one human being, not be enough? Considering how much there is to people, how awesome and amazing they are. I think my one love is overwhelming enough!

    I personally believe that if a relationship is good enough, your need for this whole ‘open’ thing will evaporate. But then you each need to be a complete, whole person.
    So many people seem ‘broken’ and I think that’s the reason they want more than one partner – to get bits and pieces from all sources.

    I really like this discussion and I really appreciate all the viewpoints brought forward here. It’s very interesting to see how people think about it! Thanks Renee!

  • Y

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    @ David. Yes, I totally agree – I don’t think those in an open relationship can feel like number 1. I also believe there isn’t a difference between an open relationship and a friendship where 2 people sleep together – they both seem very emotionally detached.
    They also sound quite the opposite to passionate, exclusive, monogamous relationships where two people GIVE to one another. Open relationships sound like people are TAKING what they need from someone else, i.e. sexual satisfaction. I hope I’m speaking clearly here :)

    @ Marshall. This forum is to discuss, to share thoughts and beliefs. The way Renee speaks flows beautifully like the very feminine woman she is. Speaking to the point is a more masculine approach (not that women shouldn’t speak like that).. but maybe something to think about.

  • Luci

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I don’t understand it, really not. It’s also very sad to me that both cheating and casual sex are becoming the norm.
    To me an intimate relationship is exclusive both emotionally and sexually. Being completely comitted, being special to each other. And the way I feel about it, this is not so possible when there are more than two people involved. When I love someone and am determined to live with him I am comitted to fidelity [and expect the same from him]. I haven’t read all comments here but I feel the same way like what Y said.

  • twinkle

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    ‘Becomming one’ sexually is not in the Christian Bible, its in the Jewish part of the bible called Proverbs. Men also know that sex doesn’t always equal love or even ‘love’ When women do that, there fooling themselves in my opinion. Women are the ones that bring in the new life, and unless shes sterilized, the child wouldnt know who her/his dad is and it causes many problems.

  • David

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    @Y, For a relationship to work out for the long term, (and for long term passion sakes…) you have to feel like you’re the most important thing to your partner. If you felt like you’re only number 2, or number 3, wouldn’t you just jump ship and find a place where you can be number 1 (even if it’s a shitty ship)?
    I don’t see how you can feel number 1 in an open relationship.
    And what is the difference between an open relationship and a very close friendship where the 2 ppl have sex?

    @ Marshall, I liked the video. it’s nice to look at a pretty face for 3:54 minutes. Believe it or not, it’s one of the hardest things to do speaking in front of a camera. And then putting that on the internet. Try it and you’ll see what I mean.

  • twinkle

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I think that would bring the opposite effect as well as many STDs. when women and men have just one man, their sex life may take a little time, but it gets better. Sex is also holy and spiritual. Its the only thing that done together binds one to anothers soul. You literaly become one with that person.

  • Jenny

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    Good dialogue going so far!! I can see that this topic definitely interests many people! Renee – no worries on the missed emails … I sent a couple and hopefully I sent them to the correct email address hehe :-)

    Again – I think that an open relationship means being OPEN with each about EVERYTHING! Even if it’s hard to discuss … you’re still each others number 1 priority – it doesn’t mean you are looking for other people to be with. But if there was a situation where maybe someone else did start catching your attention, then you would be OPEN with your partner about it … make sense?

    Much love to you all!

  • Marshall

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I do think a little more brevity in your video on this topic would be helpful. It would make it quicker for people to view your videos and respond if you made your point only once. Maybe a little more planning of what you want to say (or maybe some crib notes to keep it succinct) would help… with all due respect of course.

  • Y

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    Haha where do I start!

    Firstly, I’m really glad you brought up your jealously article Renee, it was the first thing that popped into my mind. If you truly and deeply love someone.. how could you not be jealous of them seeking fulfillment with other women? How could you bear to see them kiss or touch someone else? Personally it makes no sense to me. I would definately feel very alone if I was in an open relationship.
    What about when you’re at a party, waiting in a room full of people for your partner to arrive. When he arrives and you see his eyes dart across the room.. what if they fall onto another intimate partners before yours? And your the last person he says hello to/acknowledges? How would that make you feel?

    If you’ve accepted that your partner needs other women in his life to fulfill his needs and then you allow that to happen.. to me that sounds like you’ve given up. In my opinion, it’s those with lower self esteem that accept being in open relationships. They either a) feel like they need lots of men to make them feel good about themselves OR b) don’t have the confidence to stand up to their partner and say they’re not comfortable with it, and thus have the relationship they deserve. But that’s just my opinion :)

    Theres something so special and magical about being in an exclusive relationship. If you both put the time and effort in.. you feel like a princess, you feel like the most important girl in your mans life.

    Dr Phil feels very strongly about monogamous relationships too, and has talked about this often in his show.

  • Womenawakened

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I actually think that by sleeping with multiple men, might actually have the reverse effect. That of overpowering my feminine energy with too much yang.
    Personally, I’m only interested in being with one man and that man is the representation of universal masculinity to me. He is the pillar of strength in our relationship. Why would I seek him elsewhere?

  • Kenya K Stevens

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    Bliss to you! Isn’t this fun! I am just getting to see this today. I will have to respond next week as I’m teaching a tantra course this weekend to women in DC.

    I would love to carry this dialogue much further. The initial approach leaves the topic open for deep exploration. I love it!

    I do beleive that feminine women are Universal Lovers – e care for everyone like the great mother archetypes lie Auset, Yemanja, Isis and so forth…

    However we have to explore deeply the fact that the four feminine archetypes that are the basis for feminine energy in most ancient cultures have not been cultivated into the modern woman – so it is no wonder we don’t recall it or act upon it. And of course we do not have to act upon our natural feminine care all at once, this has been a process for me and it will be for any woman choosing to fully open to femininity.

    In terms of being deluded… we as a culture are deeply deluded as to who and what we are. For instance, we can heal any illness with thought. We have forgotten that fact. We can fly and shift shapes – we have forgotten that fact. Humans have the capacity to communicate fully with telepathy. We have forgotten it. And we have the capacity to love universally without boundaries… we have forgotten that too. All of his is alright, but yes, and alas, we are deluded by current cultural constructs as to who we are. This is a simple fact that the New Age opens more of each day.

    So ideas that were once standard, like in sub-sahara Africa – using the law of attraction (thought, dance, shrines which are actually vision boards) to attract better crops were forgotten and then re-remembered. Same with the ways we relate and run relationships… it’s all good. Let’s begin the exploration!

    I promise to reply with a video and more later.

    Love and Light!

    xoxo

  • Renee

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    @ A: Thanks for sharing that with us. The notion that 80% of people are honest is actually really heartwarming :)

    @ Tiara and Jenny: As much as I respect and love Kenya for her belief in her cause, her conviction, and her desire to really help women – the way she approaches spreading her message is at times, very domineering (especially in my experience with her). She refuses to listen to your side of the story and instead insists that others are delusional.

    Not only this, but she assumes that I will ‘wake up’ one day. I could say the same to her – but I wouldn’t! Since NO-ONE is going gain greater understanding of anybody by using such closed terms and phrases.

    All respect to her though. I just want people to be heard…..

    @ Shaun: Uh….I’m not vouching for open relationships. And I forgot to mention in my video for Christians to please save their judgments. Rash Judgments don’t help anybody. Just because one is a Christian doesn’t mean they can make others wrong.

    @ Lauren: “I want to be elevate my man above others and feel elevated in return.” – I love this. :)

    @ Jade: Absolutely! We cannot expect a commitment from a man when he isn’t given the freedom to truly be a man.

    @ Sachemt: Thanks for your contribution. I understand your point about people being in open relationships having less depth. ALTHOUGH – they would argue this is not the case; that it’s possible to have depth with every partner.

    @ Womenawakened: I have heard of people stating that men are polygamous by nature. Just for the record, I have asked the men in my life about this – as well as men who aren’t close to me – and 9/10 of them think this is complete “BS”.

    And just to clarify – ‘ownership’ isn’t about relying on someone else to do all your emotional/spiritual need meeting for you. It’s about rising above the 50/50 relationship style.

    But, true ownership is real – I experience it and it makes me feel alive. It feels true and real to me.

    As it is for many others in the world.

    As I stated in my article on overcoming jealousy in your relationship - you’re either in or you’re out. You either give your full self and serve your love; or you’re out. No wasting anybody’s time. The purpose of intimate relationship is to serve each other. To be fully present. How can you be present when you’re in bed with another – or spending the summer with your other girlfriend or boyfriend??!

    And as for femininity – there’s no way on earth or hell that by sleeping with other men, that it would bring out my femininity. That’s for sure!!

  • Womenawakened

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    Personally, I believe that most men are by nature polygamous and that most women are monogamous. If you look in nature it is much more common to find 1 dominant male with a harem of females and much rarer the other way around.

    Here’s the thing, I think a feminine woman might need more than one man, if the man she is with doesn’t exude enough dominant masculine energy that she craves to balance out her extreme femininity.

    I also know of some women who find that their male partner has so much masculine energy that to balance it out all the yang, they find harmony by including another female partner into their relationship.

    When it comes to universal love, sure you can love multiple men or multiple women, then again it doesn’t have to be necessarily sexual in nature. Agape love is is an alternative.

  • Sachemt

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    Very interesting questions, Renee.

    Do you feel like being in a relationship with one person for life obstructs growth?

    No, and I do definitely not think that open relationships further growth. I guess you could probabely only think that if you confused “growth” with “making as many different experienes as you possibly can”.
    Growth does not come from the quantity of experiences but from their quality. It needs immersion, focus, intensity, passion, depth and a lot of reflection upon yourself, your environment etc. And a relationship with only one person provides a better ground for that because you do not have to focus on to many people. That’s much like going out for dinner for dinner with three or 10 people. The more people there are at the table, the less likely it becomes that you will talk about something with them that really strikes a cord within you. Higher numbers of people make our experiences with them more shallow and shallow experiences do not further growth.

    Do you think that one woman cannot satisfy one man’s sexual needs?

    Probalby not when you think that every single sexual fantasy that crosses your mind at some point and no matter how weird it may be is a “need” and has to be satisfy lest the world will stop turning.
    But then, this reeks of puberty and immaturity. This man would probably be a “taker” i.e. somebody who is more interested in receiving sexual pleasure than giving it. And takers make really bad lovers … Moreover, it shows that you take sex much more seriously than you should and that you attach far more meaning to its “mechanical” side than the emotional. For if the emotional side would be important why fuss about the fulfilment of each sexual need at all. (Of course, sexual needs should be fulfilled and not ignored but – in my opinion – this is not at the centre of sex.)

    Do you believe it is IMPOSSIBLE for just one man to fulfill all your needs as a spiritual, sexual and emotional being?

    Yes, this definitely is impossible. I am far to complex and volatile for that. And it would not be my partners task anyway, nor would it be mine to fulfil all his spiritual, sexual and emotional needs. I am a big girl. I can (or should be able to) take care of my needs myself.
    I think that a person who cannot be fulfilled and happy “out of themselves” they will never be and they will never really love. I think that your happiness and your fulfilment has to come from yourself, from inside. You cannot rely on your environment, including your partner, to fulfil your needs and to make you happy. Because then you place your happiness on the behaviour and actions of other people that you expect from them. I find this extremely unfair. It chains your partner up because you try to make them into someething they are not, into what you expect them to be (what you need them to be to be fulfilled) You are responsible for yourself, nobody else is. And I think that when you can be truly happy and fulfilled “from within” then you are open to really love somebody because you do not project your wishes onto them and expect them to fulfil them. For you can see your partner for what s/he really is and not what you want them to be.
    (And no, I have not reached this point myself but it is what I would want to strive for ;-)))

    I think that what people who favour open relationships want is to prevent the work, pain, complications, commitment arguments etc. that invariably come with a momogamous relationship. They do not want to become emotionally involved at a deep level. That is okay, of course. Many people do not want that. But they should be honest with themselves and acknowledge that at that point they are just not ready for this kind of relationship and that this might change at some point in the future.
    Maybe open relationships are a little bit like television. They offer entertainment and excitement without depth and involvement. As long as your TV runs you do not feel “alone”, you feel that you are part of life, you do not feel this inner emptiness that most people feel (and hate and fear) now and than. But it just fights the symptoms not the cause. I guess open relationships can more easily than monogamous ones cover up this emptiness and prevent you from feeling it. But in the end it is still there because you would have to turn within and really feel it and find out, what you need to do to fulfil yourself, to cure it. And TV and a lot of sex with many different partners is most like not it …

    Does this make any sense at all?
    Sorry for the long post but I tend to become “philosophical” when I get a chance to think about such questions.

  • Jade

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I think it is very possible to have a man and a woman commited to eachother and fullfill each others needs its been done for for thousands of years . There are also situations where men and women are miserable in monogamous realtionships. Monogamous reltionships if they are solid ones work for the children ( knowing and having both parents together) it works for financial reasons for both people . It works for the entire family structure. First of all if you in any relationship to have the other partner fullfill your needs to make you feel good about yourself or fullfill you , you need to love yourself first and you are respsonsible for your own happiness dont depend on others to do it for you and your partner needs to understand that also. Once you have that established then you are free. When you grow together and face life together you become stronger and more secure in many ways. Of course if the partners cannot for some reason make those things work then you shouldnt be together .But to go around changing bed partners like changing your underwear is rediculous , looking for ” love and freedom ” is not about bed hopping never was and never will be. If a man doesnt seem to fullfill your sex drives and what pleases you , or the other important needs you probabaly have not communicated to him what pleases you , that is the feminine womans role in their relarionship. Most men want to please their woman that is why they are with you or they would be with someone else. The trick here is to take your time be sure what you both want and ussually being friends is the best way to start.Having had two of my own sons and 11 foster boys over the years I can understand why alot of them shy away from committed realtionships I have found that the women of today want an emasculated man , they want them to be less man and more feminine. No wonder men are feeling the way they are .Read more about what men are gentically and you will understand they are warriors and bread winners by nature not mothers and house maids.

  • Lauren

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I suppose I don’t see the point of being in a relationship if it’s open. I mean, you’re validating others outside of the relationship as well as your man/woman.

    How would I know you truly care for me? Your words might say it, but your actions don’t.

    I want to be elevate my man above others and feel elevated in return. No open relationships for me.

  • Jasmine

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I’m with Renee wholeheartedly. For me I want one Man, I want him to be my King and me to be his Queen…deeply truly…it does take work. I only have the energy for one man, if I’m doing it right.

  • A

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    Also, Renee. I believe that statistic is incorrect. I have read that roughly 20% of men have admitted to cheating on their wives and roughly 15% of women have admitted to cheating on their husbands.

    This also follows with what my mama always told me: 80% of people are honest.
    :)

  • Tiara

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    Relationships are “relating” to people…everybody we engage with we have “relationships” with…parents, friends, bosses, co workers, lovers, spouses etc, most of us don’t actually know how to “relate” to others though..we tend to project and filter everything thru us, having no clue about whats going on with other people

    to me there is also a very big difference between the masculine man and the ego driven man

    I think a family can form from a unit of “two” or a unit of more if thats what people choose all willingly.

  • Shaun

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I think if the relationship is Open then you cant call it a relationship. The word Relation means relating to each other.
    This is what frustrates me about women they actually can’t see between black or white Women seem to only see in grays. This is the purpose of a male to lead a woman into truth. Masculine men know the difference between a Relationship and an Arrangement. Having multiple partners is an arrangement for sexual experiences it has nothing to do with love or intimacy.

    Men realize this seems like women don’t or else you wouldn’t be asking this question.

    What ever you say don’t call it a relationship for relationship are unions by which a family can emerge from a marriage union. Multiple partners cannot support family dynamics.

  • Tiara

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I follow Kenya as well…I’m not sure I ever heard her refer to people as being deluded for thinking they can be fullfilled by one mate, however she may talk about alot of people deluding themselves in relationships by “trying” to be monogomous when they really feel like they are missing something, not truly happy or what not and may need to experience other things/people and that doesn’t necessarily mean just leaving your partner but opening up to let them know I really may need to figure all this out and I don’t want to lose you in the process

    • Renee

      Reply Reply July 15, 2010

      @ Tiara: hey :) I had a twitter convo with her, and yes, she said (word for word) “of course” they are deluded. Let me explain the context: she brought up how 66% of U.S men and women have admitted that they’ve cheated on their spouses in some way (implying that we need to make changes, and learn to master monogamy, then move on to open relationships).

      So I proceeded to ask her (about this statistic/study) well, what about the other 34% ?? Are they deluded?! And she said of course women are deluded (women in monogamous relationships/marriages, that is).

      Interesting persepctive, is what I thought. :) and of course, I am in complete disagreement.

      @ Jenny: Did I miss your emails? I didn’t get any email about open relationships….. Xx

  • Tiara

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    Do you think that you cannot be truly fulfilled as a woman by just one man?

    Its possible, I have experienced at different times in my life open relationships where it was made clear we weren’t “exclusive” and I would see other men and also cheating (where i agreed to be monogomous and wasn’t, that I felt was not in my integrity and at the same time I would of liked to “feel” like monogomy was for me, but it wasn’t so there was no need to lie or pretend I was) at one point in time I was in an open relationship with a man and for the first year or so that we were really together I had no desire to be with other men, and when I wanted to deeper, explore more things about relationships and love, he didnt want to, so the relationship with my best male friend changed into a deeper one for me to explore and my other man eventually started seeing other people and to this day our physical relationships may have changed but there is a great love and great relationships still exist with a few of these men who are all important to me and who I truly love

    Do you feel like being in a relationship with one person for life obstructs growth?

    Only if you are not growing together

    Do you think that one woman cannot satisfy one man’s sexual needs?

    one woman can

    Do you believe it is IMPOSSIBLE for just one man to fulfill all your needs as a spiritual, sexual and emotional being?

    no its not impossible, quite possible…I’ve seen couples (rare)who have done it where it is obvious there is passion and love between them and its a beautiful sight to see, I love to talk to those people….I see way more miserable “couples” who celebrate being able to “stay together” for a massive amount of years who only enjoyed the first few of those years together if they ever truly enjoyed any of it at all and to me that is not an example of true love…if we don’t get joy in what /who we are doing then we need to change perspective or stop doing it

    To me, I feel all my different relationships, including romantic or close relationships with men and the ones that were happening at the same time as well have helped me grow tremendously as a woman and I would not trade the experience, I have met many beautiful men who I love dearly who love me as well and love is a beautiful thing in itself..

    Now to me personally I feel that if I got married that I would be with one person, not necessarily exclusive in the sense he or I would have to be “obligated” to each other, or each others possession, I’m always for freedom and conscious choices without consequence but I feel its quite possible to find that connection with one person and be able to be with that person and to me thats who I would marry and I always felt there should be a certain feeling I would have before I could KNOW that I could make that type of commitment for myself…without that feeling I would be lying, not true to myself and not true to the man in my life who I would be “marrying”

    I feel all my other love relationships have helped me grow and some people may do all the growing they need to do with one person for their whole life, some do it with several others, and I just happen to experience great and FAST growth with different people, different relationships and all with LOVE and its been an amazing journey, I am Love, I give love, I love love

    Last year I met a man where I got that “feeling” and I feel all my past lovers and LOVEs helped me get to a point where I feel whole in myself, where I know LOVE is who I am and I think getting married to somebody is truly knowing how to LOVE another and I have no doubt I can be with one man in marriage, however I would never knock the experience of loving more than one man and I love to hear men talk about their experiences with other women because when they know how to love I know they can love me as well…and the special men who are in my life now will always have a place in my heart and my husband will know just how much they helped me be the very super feminine, loving woman I am that is able to commit to loving him for as long as we both consciously mutually choose to be committed to each other in “wholly” matrimony

    I know its possible to love more than one person, we don’t stop loving people we love even if the relationship parameters and physical states change

    So I know for myself open relationships have truly helped me RISE in love and all experiences negative and positive were great lessons in love and none of them devestated or broke me down, just built me up into a LOVE GODDESS :)

  • Aphrodite

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    A feminine woman is different from today’s world woman, they are a bit traditional maybe with a modern twist. A husband is their first priority. Don’t call yourself a feminine if you want to share your husband or you want to sleep with few men. Shame.

  • Aphrodite

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I never believe in open relationship, I am a bit traditional, and feminine by nature, for me sharing your men like sharing your undergarments. You should not be too open about it and another thing, it’s something like a feminist movement to me which I dont like.

  • Jenny

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    Hi Renee!!
    I am so glad that you are bringing this up! I know I have sent you several emails regarding this very issue! I am a big follower of your blog, and also of Kenya’s jujumama blog – and Goddess Embrace (Tiara Harris’ blog). Now let me just first say a BIG thank you to all 3 of these amaaazing women! You all have opened my eyes to so many important ideas and the ways of femininity, and that alone has helped me out IMMENSELY in my personal life :-) I go back and forth on the idea of open relationships. I honestly believe that one man CAN fulfill one woman’s needs, and vice versa, however, that takes A LOT of work. And the sad but true truth is that many of us are not willing to put forth that kind of effort. The concept that intrigues me about open relationships, is not really the fact of sleeping with other people. I don’t think that is really the point. It’s the fact that we love our significant other SO much, that we could never put restraints or control him/her. I LOVE this idea. But Renee – you too believe in this concept, but just believe it should be with only 1 other person. I think you all have similar ideas. It’s all about being 100% OPEN with each other. Not hiding anything – even if that means you are feeling “attracted” to someone else. And then you talk about it! That’s when the 2 loving people in the relationship, decide whether or not it is something worth pursuing. Does this make sense at all?? Sometimes I get on a tangent. I guess I believe all 3 of you are on to something…….I LOVE being open about everything! IT’s so freeing and liberating. Having been both the controller, and the controllee in a relationship – I know how terrible BOTH can be – so it’s nice to be out of that. It’s all about being honest. Am I ready to have my man (who i absolutely adore!) be with another woman – NO! But I would be willing to discuss his feelings on the matter in an open and non judgemental way. Is he ready to see me with another man – absolutely not! But I have no desire to be with another man at this point. Open relationships to me, just mean – plain and simple – being OPEN! And I LOVE that!!
    OK – sorry for the long post. Hope this makes sense!!
    Much Love!!

  • Jennie

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    I have been in an open relationship, knew that he loved me completely. The thought of him sharing sexual and even emotional experiences with other people was difficult in some ways. The gains however superceded the difficulties. I was able to experience other amazing men and women who met very different spiritual, emotional, and yes sexual needs. I was more secure in the relationship with my fiance than any other relationship I have had. The end of the relationship came about because we were not on the same page with work/life balance. The relationship being an open one just enhanced our lives and made it an unforgettable time.

  • Tamara

    Reply Reply July 15, 2010

    um, no open relationship for me. I never understood how people could not care about their partner sleeping with other people. Fine if others want to but I don’t.

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